Posts by the dreamer dreaming

the bible is just another of the many things that my Dream maker has sent my way.... and while some things seem true and others seem false, I am not really sure either term has any actual meaning in the end... as all my expeirences are what my Dream makers has given me to live....

do I believe the Bible represents anything real? no (^_^)

75

Infallibility of Scripture

by drew sagan in

one of this biggest teachings present in mostly all christian denominations is the idea that the bible is infallibile.

my question is, where does the bible say this?

i know of many scriptures that point to the idea that what was written was directed by god, but where does the idea that what written is totally without error originate?

the dreamer dreaming

dont forget that those who say it is infallible are the same ones who cannot see any contradictions in the bible either...

I have seen websites documenting hundreds of them. (^_^)

77

You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

by Shining One in

since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

terry said this: .

>life is at the basis of reality for humans.

the dreamer dreaming

aborting children has no significant impact on society as it exists[especially considering the perps are removing their own DNA from the human race], while keeping alive direct threats does.... while it would be ideal to cure all those who have harmed society and return them to productive membership in the human race, this does not seem very likely in any near future I can imagine.... or dream about (^_^).... while the abortion of a child does have an impact on society on some levels, its impact is far less than that of a murderer or a child rapist who is an identified and direct threat.

I see a certain amount of madness in placing threats to society in a dehumanized and dehumanizing enviornment surrounded by others who are just as much or more of a threat to society...then when they are good and dehumanized, releasing them back into the general population as pronouncing them cured because of magical time served.... as surely we all know [if we have our heads up our collective arse] that they would not want to go back there again, right?!

21

when is the truth not the truth

by beezknees in

okay i'm still a newbie but i was quite surprised when reading some info of a statement about the 'end being fluid' and that .

'present truth replaces past truth ,however present truth may be replaced by future truth'.

cambridge dictionary definition on truth -the real facts about a situation, event or person.

the dreamer dreaming

post JW, I came to see that FAITH is not knowledge [direct expeirence, perceptions] and belief is not fact [again direct perceptions].

while a JW, an elder said to me, but you KNOW this is THE TRUTH, and I said to him, I dont KNOW it, I have FAITH that it is... to me they were not identicle terms even back then...but he was taken aback, yet could not say anything to me about this...

I asked 3 different elder one 3 seperate occasions.... if you found that one of the teachings of the society was wrong...[as they dont claim to be inspired nor infallible]... how would you handle it... keep it to yourself? send a letter to help desk? etc?

to a man, the repeated the very same cult mantra.... I would NEVER presume to KNOW more than the SOCIETY.... scary...

how can you tell me that I KNOW it is THE TRUTH when I am not supposed to have an opinion of my own? and another scary moment

was when one of these elders from the platform [the local throne of God] said... INDEPENDENT THINKING was of SATAN....

my, my, I thought, what OTHER sort of thinking is there? none!! panic!!

20

Why are we still here ?

by Genesis in

jw
friends

hi mighty apostate crew, .

last weekend i was talking with my girlfriend and said to her that i was on an ex-jw forum.

her reaction was : if jws do not bother you anymore why are you still trying get information on them ?

the dreamer dreaming

I stay because I have found a way to deal with my past and hope to share it with others who are having a difficult time...for the purely selfish reason that I see all of you as part of me and I want all of me to be happy

14

Overheard at Special Assembly Day

by under_believer in

jw
friends

at our "special assembly day," they interviewed an elderly "sister" in her 70's.

she is the wife of a longtime circuit overseer who is of a similar age, but in very poor health.

a couple years ago he retired into our circuit and is being entirely supported by contributions from people in our circuit, living in one of those connected-to-the-kh apartment arrangements.

the dreamer dreaming

to support the notion that we're "deep, deep in the time of the end."

its getting deep all right, I got my wading boots on

54

Something strange about "Christs invisible presence"...

by Hellrider in

something just occured to me: .

we all know that "parousia" doesn`t mean "invisble presence" at all, it just means "presence", but think about the inlogical...ness about the whole jw-doctrine on 1914. my question is: what is jesus` job really, up there in heaven?

- he "took reign" and was "given the throne" in 1914. but what does that mean, really?

the dreamer dreaming

you know, I remember this story, but I think it was called something different originally.... The emporer's new clothes, I think...yeah, thats the ticket...invisible, yeah..

only those with FAITH can SEE... [read CONvince themselves that what someone SUGGESTED, and caused them to IMAGINE is real].

how do you KNOW that you have been baptized by the holy spirit? seems to be a very big question among not just JWs... and the answer always seems like a CON job... you will KNOW when you see the fruits of the spirit in your life... which of course makes people wonder if they have it or not as they know they are still not really much different then they were before.... great anxiety over this as people want to FEEL something special and most don't so they must CONvince themselves and many do (^_^)

how do we KNOW jesus is invisibly present.... well you look at the signs of the times.... which by the way, those in 1870s reading the Watchtower of the day all saw just as clearly as the faithful do now, only their invisible date was 1844.

26

Would a Father really destroy His children for disobeying and arrogance?

by Judas I. in

even go so far as to torment them forever?

how could that ever be justified?.

would that be also admitting failure as a father by resorting to that?.

the dreamer dreaming

If lumping all fears into just the fear of God had resulted in increased love for our fellow humans, then yes, that would be an improvement. But that's not what happened. Belief in one god to the exclusion of all others breeds intolerence and hate, as is abundantly evident in fundie religions, JWs, extreme Muslim groups, and in mainstream Christian religious history. With the exception of the creation of beautiful works of art, architecture, and music, monotheism in practice has fallen far short of its claims of moral superiority.

there are many negatives but also some positives that have come out of monotheism... according to one book I read, the concept of time being linear rather than cyclical drived from the bible because it presented a god who made promises that made the future different than the past... while most other cultures viewed each year as sort of a repeat of the last and never progressing to something different... which lead to the modern concepts of science, etc... is that so? I am not sure...but some seem to think this is the case.

also intolerance while generally a great negative also has the power of unifying people in common cause which allows mighty works to be done that individuals cannot accomplish.... I have seen the JW hive mind in action in quick build kingdom halls and marvelled at its ability... at the time I saw this as proof of the divine blessing....now I see it as reversion to termites (^_^).

32

Was Eve Perfect?

by Sunnygal41 in

hello, need some thoughts on this one............this question was presented to me last night and i told the person i'd bring it to the forum and get some of our resident scholars to opine on it.

the reasoning goes that eve did not have full knowledge like adam did, so when she took the fruit, she did so in that context and so, was not perfect, as adam was.

terri

the dreamer dreaming

JWs distort the story to fit their own myths

no where does god promise eternal life for the obediant.... what he promises is a quick death for the one who eats of the tree...

which infact turns out to be false.

secondly, Adam was not made to live forever as JWs claim... the story is quite clear that God did nothing to cause Adam to die

and the eating of the tree did not either... infact Adam lived to be 930 years old and there is no mention of how he died but it seems that old age was the culprit....

what the bible is also clear about is that Adam could only live longer artificially--that is by eating of the magic tree of life.

and even AFTER eating of the tree of knowledge, Adam still was ABLE to do so...but out of fear, it seems, God prevented this.

if you assume God is all knowing... another absurd idea... then Eve was always perfectly what God knew she would be :)

otherwise, what would you compare her to? there is no other human around as a standard :)